This is interesting because now our task becomes to show where a non-evolutionist theist apologist who isn’t a radical Christian gets angry. I can almost see the next move coming: any apologist that gets angry is probably a radical Christian or not a real apologist… makes it rather difficult doesn’t it.

Now in order to make a fair comparison, what is the atheistic equivalent of a Christian apologist? It us not just a believer in evolution nor is it just any non-believer. It might be an atheist that doesn’t get angry at challenges… or more seriously it is probably those people that go around doing many public debates and discussions on the topic. You don’t see the likes of Dennett, Dawkins, Harris, Shermer, Hitchens and co getting angry at challenges during public discussions – frustrated yes but not angry.

People that are generally well practiced public speakers are very good at restraining their anger/frustration and since public speaking and debate is most apologists bread and butter, it is no surprise very few of them get angry in public. The same is true of similarly skilled atheists. The beliefs are not the cause of the difference and I still don’t see any reason to suppose otherwise.

Ted Haggard is one that immediately comes to mind, especially in an interview between him and Richard Dawkins during one of his documentaries. Haggard becomes very angered by Dawkins after he corrects him on what evolution actually is and what it says, then as they’re packing up their equipment to leave he starts yelling at them, telling them to get off his property or he’ll call the police etc – whilst they’re already in the process of leaving anyway. I’m sure the video is on youtube somewhere.

I’ll try to think up some more but the only other apologist name that comes to mind at the moment is Ray Comfort. He just tends to ignore his opponent though so he never has a reason to get offended I guess..

I don’t mind the gaps in communication, I’ve been busy all week anyway so it’s probably a good thing that I wasn’t spending all my time posting here haha.

-Mike.

Thanks for your comments. You said,

In my experience, from my own limited sample size of 1, I find that many apologists/theists view any form of confrontation as a personal attack and view their opponent as becoming threatening/aggressive, when in reality they are just asking direct, critical questions without arbitrarily regarding the subject of god as sacred.

I would like to get the names of Christian apologists whom you found behaving in that manner and the occasion when they behaved in that manner so that I might confront them with this information. I would surely do that because “housekeeping” should begin with one’s own house first.

I was unable to post anything this week because I was in a camp site with no net access. Lord willing I will come with my next post this week. Let the discussion go on and let the truth come out (we Indians love doing this, and it is known in the Hindi language as “Shastrartha”)

Johnson C. Philip

it would take a great deal of naivety to claim that no theist gets angry when his/her beliefs are challenged.

I did not make such a claim. On the contrary, I only said that I have never seen a theist behaving that way in the last four decades, though I have seen them in situations where anyone would have lost his cool — yet they did not.

Thus my request was, in the light of my experience, that if you come across exceptions, then you should bring it to my attention. I would be the first to tell that Christian that his behaviour was inappropriate.

Let me record here, for the sake of readers, that I have been lecturing, debating, presenting papers, answering questions, for almost four decades. In my personal experience it is the atheist, the theistic evolutionist, the so-called rationalist, the anti-Christian, and (especially) the radical Christian whom I have seen losing their poise.

Stuart said it all in:

When a Christians shows anger as the example above, as it is inconsistent with the theology they supposedly champion, its worth a gentle chastisement. But atheistic reactions do seem to run a amok sometimes, and the question is – why is that?

Johnson C. Philip

But atheistic reactions do seem to run a amok sometimes, and the question is – why is that?

Confirmation bias.

Ian was right, all people react negatively to disagreement – the level of reaction differs obviously from person to person but I wouldn’t expect that you’d find a difference between atheists and theists.

To be fair, this is Johnson’s account and although I’m not accusing him of lying at all, we have to bear in mind that the event took place nearly 30 years ago and all the information we have to go on is Johnson’s word. Again, not saying that he’s lying, but our memories are heavily influenced by our perceptions and following experiences so what he remembers may not exactly resemble what actually took place. So I could quite easily sit back here and say that theist reactions run amok sometimes and that we need to figure out why, and deny that atheists do this until you present me with a case. I won’t obviously, because I understand that humans are human.

In my experience, from my own limited sample size of 1, I find that many apologists/theists view any form of confrontation as a personal attack and view their opponent as becoming threatening/aggressive, when in reality they are just asking direct, critical questions without arbitrarily regarding the subject of god as sacred. And there’s also the factor of “frustration” when talking about scientists – (both theist and atheist) will become quite frustrated and possibly aggressive when the subject they’ve studied for their entire lives is mutilated by layman misapprehensions. This is just natural – if I started talking about god, constantly making claims that are clearly not true or that blatantly twist the descriptions given in the bible, and continue to do so despite your best efforts to educate me on the true nature of the facts – I’m sure you’d get a little angry. I’d probably be banned from posting on this site, and I’d be called an idiot (or words to that effect).

-Mike.

What you lack is a specific example to make your case. Until then I’ll say there is no conflation here of expectation with actuality. I’ve never seen a Christian apologist (or lay-person) react in an angry fashion when their ideas were challenged – the most I’ve seen is politely restrained frustration. When a Christians shows anger as the example above, as it is inconsistent with the theology they supposedly champion, its worth a gentle chastisement. But atheistic reactions do seem to run a amok sometimes, and the question is – why is that?

There is a great hunger among Indian teenagers to know about Bible/Science and also about the false claims that people make in the name of evolution.

Ian, you said

I have no doubt we could dig up numerous examples of theists reacting to atheists in the same way but that is entirely irrelevant

I consider as totally relevant what you consider as entirely irrelevant. A Christian apologists is expected to practice and “show” what he preaches because apologetics cannot be isolated from one’s behaviour — for that would be hypocrisy.

I have been listening to atheists as well as anti Christians for a long period of time, but fortunately or unfortunately I could not see the kind of behaviour on the part of theists that you mentioned.

If you do come across cases of Christian scientists behaving the way this theistic-evolutionist behaved, do tell me. I would be the first to tell them that their behaviour is inconsistent with their theology.

Johnson C. Philip