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	<title>Comments on: Did God order genocide in the Old Testament against the Canaanites?</title>
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	<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/</link>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/#comment-3356</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That may be a bit harsh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That may be a bit harsh.</p>
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		<title>By: Bnonn</title>
		<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/#comment-3353</link>
		<dc:creator>Bnonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/?p=901#comment-3353</guid>
		<description>The objection is absurd to begin with. The doctrine Jesus preached on most was hell. And the Old Testament is chockablock full of God&#039;s loving kindness, forbearance, patience, etc. I can only conclude that Robin Boom has not actually read the Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The objection is absurd to begin with. The doctrine Jesus preached on most was hell. And the Old Testament is chockablock full of God&#8217;s loving kindness, forbearance, patience, etc. I can only conclude that Robin Boom has not actually read the Bible.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/#comment-3352</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 06:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/?p=901#comment-3352</guid>
		<description>Robin Boom, 

I&#039;ve given a possible (and highly plausible I think) reason for why God wanted the Israelites to do the &quot;dirty work&quot; - as you say - in comment 3 above.

Your right in that if God did not order the extinction of the Caananites it would not mean the death of God but the death of biblical innerancy. But if your sole reasons for rejecting Biblical innerancy is the seeming contradiction between the Old Testament conception of God as one who judges and the New Testament conception of God as one who loves, your reason is injustified. 

Realise that if&lt;/i&gt; there is an inconsistency between the Old Testament and the New Testament conception of God&#039;s nature, it works both ways; forward from the old to the new, and backward from the new to the old. For example, the same God of judgement in the Old Testament is the God of Love in the New, &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; &lt;b&gt;the same God of love found in the New Testament is also the God of judgement in the old&lt;/b&gt;. Therefore, I locate your problem not in the innerancy of scripture regarding God&#039;s commands, nor in the apparent inconsistency of God&#039;s nature between the Old and the New Testament, but in your perception of God himself. He does not belong in your box. Why put him there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin Boom, </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve given a possible (and highly plausible I think) reason for why God wanted the Israelites to do the &#8220;dirty work&#8221; &#8211; as you say &#8211; in comment 3 above.</p>
<p>Your right in that if God did not order the extinction of the Caananites it would not mean the death of God but the death of biblical innerancy. But if your sole reasons for rejecting Biblical innerancy is the seeming contradiction between the Old Testament conception of God as one who judges and the New Testament conception of God as one who loves, your reason is injustified. </p>
<p>Realise that if there is an inconsistency between the Old Testament and the New Testament conception of God&#8217;s nature, it works both ways; forward from the old to the new, and backward from the new to the old. For example, the same God of judgement in the Old Testament is the God of Love in the New, <i>and</i> <b>the same God of love found in the New Testament is also the God of judgement in the old</b>. Therefore, I locate your problem not in the innerancy of scripture regarding God&#8217;s commands, nor in the apparent inconsistency of God&#8217;s nature between the Old and the New Testament, but in your perception of God himself. He does not belong in your box. Why put him there?</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Boom</title>
		<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/#comment-3346</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Boom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 12:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/?p=901#comment-3346</guid>
		<description>Sorry for sounding like the devil&#039;s advocate, in the temptation of Eve....... but....&#039;Did God really say?&#039;

There&#039;s a lot of tribalistic Zionism in the Bible, which is natural, because it is the story and history of the Hebrew people. I&#039;m no longer convinced God actually said and did all that the Bible claims He did. It seems pretty incongruous with the God of love found in the New Testament, unless of course God has mellowed over time!! Yet the Bible says God doesn&#039;t change. 

Besides if God really wanted these evil Canaanites taken out He needs only to slightly raise his little finger (metaphorically speaking), and they&#039;re all toast. Why would He need the Israelites to do the dirty work?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for sounding like the devil&#8217;s advocate, in the temptation of Eve&#8230;&#8230;. but&#8230;.&#8217;Did God really say?&#8217;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot of tribalistic Zionism in the Bible, which is natural, because it is the story and history of the Hebrew people. I&#8217;m no longer convinced God actually said and did all that the Bible claims He did. It seems pretty incongruous with the God of love found in the New Testament, unless of course God has mellowed over time!! Yet the Bible says God doesn&#8217;t change. </p>
<p>Besides if God really wanted these evil Canaanites taken out He needs only to slightly raise his little finger (metaphorically speaking), and they&#8217;re all toast. Why would He need the Israelites to do the dirty work?</p>
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		<title>By: Victor Relf</title>
		<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/#comment-3332</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor Relf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 10:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/?p=901#comment-3332</guid>
		<description>Could another reason for the killing of the Canananites be that due to their moral depravity they were also physically sick with disease and any intermixing was impossible. This is suggested by the ban on marriage with survivors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could another reason for the killing of the Canananites be that due to their moral depravity they were also physically sick with disease and any intermixing was impossible. This is suggested by the ban on marriage with survivors.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/#comment-3307</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 09:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Morgan-LynnGriggs Lamberth,

&lt;i&gt;Begging the question&lt;/i&gt;, as you probably know, is a specific and well-defined logical fallacy. You have not shown any circularity in the argument above, or the statement &quot;God&#039;s nature &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; good.&quot; 

Neither have you shown the circularity of the statement &quot;His ways are above our own ways.&quot; I agree that one must first present a case for something, which is why you should show exactly what is an affront to reason and provide the reasons why.

You ask, &quot;why didn’t Yahweh have another means to take care of the Amalekites?&quot;

It is possible God wanted to impress upon Israel, in a graphic and memorable way, the importance of remaining a nation set apart for his purposes - one of which was to bring forth a saviour so that he would be able to reconcile every nation and every individual to himself. This one &lt;b&gt;great&lt;/b&gt; good plausibly outweighs every so-called atrocity perpetrated in the conquest of Canaan. If you are not impressed with this response that&#039;s fine, because if there was no satisfactory answer available at the present moment, it still would not follow that God is not a moral being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Morgan-LynnGriggs Lamberth,</p>
<p><i>Begging the question</i>, as you probably know, is a specific and well-defined logical fallacy. You have not shown any circularity in the argument above, or the statement &#8220;God&#8217;s nature <i>is</i> good.&#8221; </p>
<p>Neither have you shown the circularity of the statement &#8220;His ways are above our own ways.&#8221; I agree that one must first present a case for something, which is why you should show exactly what is an affront to reason and provide the reasons why.</p>
<p>You ask, &#8220;why didn’t Yahweh have another means to take care of the Amalekites?&#8221;</p>
<p>It is possible God wanted to impress upon Israel, in a graphic and memorable way, the importance of remaining a nation set apart for his purposes &#8211; one of which was to bring forth a saviour so that he would be able to reconcile every nation and every individual to himself. This one <b>great</b> good plausibly outweighs every so-called atrocity perpetrated in the conquest of Canaan. If you are not impressed with this response that&#8217;s fine, because if there was no satisfactory answer available at the present moment, it still would not follow that God is not a moral being.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/#comment-3306</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 06:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/?p=901#comment-3306</guid>
		<description>The euthyphro dillemia has is a hopeless objection, that has incidently been refuted numerous times in the last 30 years. http://www.mandm.org.nz/search/label/Euthyphro</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The euthyphro dillemia has is a hopeless objection, that has incidently been refuted numerous times in the last 30 years. <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/search/label/Euthyphro" rel="nofollow">http://www.mandm.org.nz/search/label/Euthyphro</a></p>
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		<title>By: Morgan-LynnGriggs Lamberth</title>
		<link>http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/2009/did-god-order-genocide-in-the-old-testament-against-the-canaanites/#comment-3304</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan-LynnGriggs Lamberth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 17:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz/?p=901#comment-3304</guid>
		<description>Morgan-LynnGriggs Lamberth
 Sir, why didn&#039;t Yahweh have another means to take care of the Amalekites?  As the Euthyprho notes, morality is independent of the gods.It begs the queston to aver that any god&#039;s nature is good.. And it is an  affront to reason, to maintain that His ways are above ours for that also begs the queston as one must first present that case. A great book is &quot;Arguing about Gods,&quot; esp. the chapter on the problem of Heaven.
  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morgan-LynnGriggs Lamberth<br />
 Sir, why didn&#8217;t Yahweh have another means to take care of the Amalekites?  As the Euthyprho notes, morality is independent of the gods.It begs the queston to aver that any god&#8217;s nature is good.. And it is an  affront to reason, to maintain that His ways are above ours for that also begs the queston as one must first present that case. A great book is &#8220;Arguing about Gods,&#8221; esp. the chapter on the problem of Heaven.<br />
  Thank you.</p>
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